Search  |  New Posts

	Forums > Topical Discussions > Snow Cover In Calgary

Thread Tools  | Search This Thread

Reply

Author Comment

akeimou	Jan 27, 2008 Reply with quote #13 ... until this week.  expecting lows of -34 with -42 windchill.  probably the first time this winter that we're gonna be true to our zone3ness. still some snow cover from snowfall of the 17th although it was starting to get really thin with above zip temps of last week.  light snow right now although blowing is still a welcome sight. all this observation made me realize that there are areas of the yard that are not getting any snowcover at all throughout winter, e.g., along some sides of the house, garage, and fence.  i've heard about all that before but i guess it did not really sink in until i've seen the stark nakedness for myself.  impressed by the plants in there that are surviving this weather.  perhaps these are areas to avoid for OOZers. --meg Loading...
Jim Kohut	Jan 29, 2008 Reply with quote #14 It took me a few moments to figure out who the "OOZers" were... But I eventually got it! So now I'm proud to be an OOZer myself!! To the OOZers!!  Jim K. Loading...
akeimou	Feb 15, 2008 Reply with quote #15 big melt earlier this week.  big dump on wednesday, at least 6 inches.  accumulating to 12 in some areas of the yard.  i'm finding that the mugo pine in front of the house gives a better measure of new snow.  that and pleading countenance on snow-happy creatures. then big melt again starting today, high of 10C, low of -4C.  uh-oh, here comes that early spring in the middle of winter. --meg Loading...
akeimou	Feb 21, 2008 Reply with quote #16 well, glorious 14C today.  felt like spring is here, like winter has passed and gone for good, and that there's no more snow, frost, wind chills in our weather future.  i'm wrong of course, and so are some plants.  anyway, half of the yard is brown esp on the north side.  shady areas of the south side still have some thin layer of snow.  that too will melt soon if this nice weather doesn't let up. can't believe i'm saying that.  and that i'm actually praying (but not very hard, more like a quickly passing fancy) for snow, and temps more around freezing. --meg Loading...
akeimou	March 11, 2008 Reply with quote #17 well, it's been two weeks since my last report.  it's been brown and dry except maybe for one morning of flurries last week which immediately disappeared by the end of the day.  anyway, forecast for tonight is 30% of showers.  pretty mild everywhere isn't it? --meg Loading...
Jim Kohut	March 13, 2008 Reply with quote #18 It snowed here in early November, and we've still got at least 2 feet of snow cover that has persisted throughout the winter. That will bode well for the perennials and low shrubs, because above the ground, we had one of the worst winters in the past decade! It wasn't the depth of the cold (never actually got below -35), but the obscene number of very cold nights. I can't wait (*he said with immense trepidation*) to see what the ginkgo, honeylocust, pin oaks, catalpas, serviceberries and winterberries thought about this one! Jim K. Loading...
Nate	March 14, 2008 Reply with quote #19 Jim: Have you figured out whats worse....loads of colder nights in a winter or one or two extremely cold nights?  Will one zone 3 night kill a zone 4 plant or will 25 zone 4 nights kill it?  We've been having highs above zero for about a full month now with the odd day here and there thats not.  Many days around 10c also and the snow on all south facing yards is pretty much gone with about 4 inches or less left on the north facing ones.  No snow alongside the freeways anymore or open areas.  But apparently we're going to have a cold snap with a couple days around -3 for highs and than back above zero haha.  Sorry I know you probably don't find that funny with how cold its been for you lately but maybe that means your plants have stayed in their hardiest mode unlike the ones who have felt spring here.  Hopefully we have no more blasts, nothing colder than -12c for lows in the forecast. Loading...
Jim Kohut	March 15, 2008 Reply with quote #20 Nate, that gets to the heart of the discussion on hardiness zones. The proper answer to your question is "it depends on the plant". Some plants are extremely sensitive to extreme low temperatures, while others are injured by prolonged cold snaps. And, some are sensitive to both in varying quantities. To complicate matters further, their relative susceptibility to either of the above can be dramatically affected by how they went into the winter. I have seen zone 4 plants survive "zone 2" winters because they went in properly hardened, while I've seen zone 3 plants die to the ground in mild "zone 4" winters, just because they went into winter with a short, wet fall followed by a quick dip to -10C, effectively halting the hardening process mid-stream. So there is no one answer. My observations in this regard back this up. There are certain plants we can grow here in the eastern prairies with no problems that will suffer greatly in central Alberta, and I've often wondered why. The best example is with certain maples, specifically sugar maple and silver maple. They are both listed as "zone 3" plants by the "experts", which means they should do well in both places. But silver maples will grow to be 100' monsters in Winnipeg, while they often suffer in Edmonton and Calgary. Sugar maples are even more notorious. Some of the key growers on the prairies will not sell sugar maples, even the hardiest cultivars like Unity, into central Alberta, because the odds of their survival are very low. Sugar maples almost invariably do well here, despite the pleas of "experts" who say they are not hardy here (yet they call them zone 3...). Numerous mature speciments (>50') throughout Winnipeg will attest to this. Now why is there such a difference in cities of the same apparent hardiness zones? The "experts" cite two reasons; the lower annual average precipitation as you go west towards the Rockies, and the nasty September cold snaps Alberta can experience, which simply don't happen here (I don't think it has evern snowed in September in southern Manitoba!). The issue is that the lower annual precipitation stresses these moisture-loving maples, predisposing them to winter damage at "higher" low temperatures than in Ontario, for example. And the September cold snaps adversely affect their hardening process, again leaving them predisposed to winter damage. But neither answer actually has anything to do with hardiness! Now before you start accusing me of unfairly targeting Alberta, I admit that much of this information is anecdotal, as I don't live in Alberta. I know a lot of growers both in Alberta, and in BC and MB who sell into Alberta, and this is what they tell me to a fault - they actually will or will not sell certain plants into Alberta on this basis alone, hardiness be damned. And, there is an interesting document published by Agriculture Canada called "Prairie Regional Trials for Woody Ornamentals 1959-2001", which is available online - I would strongly recommend obtaining and reading this if you are into details on the comparative performance of specific trees across the prairies. The evidence they present is rather definitive. On the other hand, there are trees that seem totally unaffected by these adverse conditions. Honeylocusts seem to do rather well in southern Alberta, while they definitely fight the prolonged cold snaps here on the eastern prairies. Likewise ginkgos, at least from U of A anecdotal evidence. Apparently there are one or more red oaks growing in Alberta, while I have neve seen one in Winnipeg, and my attempt failed miserably (although they do grow in Morden, which is slightly warmer - zone 3b). If the rumors be true about Aesculus species other than A. glabra doing so well in Alberta, there would be another major difference. I know that winged burning bush seems to fare much better in Edmonton and Calgary than in Winnipeg, where it is almost always clipped by lengthy cold snaps. This is precisely why professional horticulturalists tend to cringe when gardeners use hardiness zones as the be-all and end-all determinant. They simply do not tell the whole story, and they never will. Winter survival is intimately tied to plant survival, and that is a complex equation of annual precipitation, sunlight, growing season, heating units, absolute low temperatures, prolonged cold snaps, absolute high temperatures in summer, drainage, shelter, soil conditions and nutrition, disease and insect prevalence, and so many other factors. That's why the better "experts" out there will always advise gardeners and homeowners to only use hardiness zones as guidelines, and take all other factors into consideration when selecting a plant, especially a long-term investment like a tree or a shrub. Unless, of course, you're intentionally trying to push the limits to make discoveries and gather data yourself - like me!! Jim K. Loading...
Nate	March 17, 2008 Reply with quote #21 Jim: This is a very good discussion we got going on because it starts to penetrate stronger issues involved in having the trees that are so rare in our areas but apparently should or should not work in our areas.  I'd like to comment on the trees that you discussed.  As far as silver maple goes, I'm guessing it hates our lack of water as we have almost become of arid status in Edmonton.  It seems to frost crack and have stunted growth when planted in boulevards.  Yet you see ones planted at U of A, Grant Macewan College, and many other areas and they are growing great.  As far as Silver Cloud Maple goes, it is not phased by lack of water and destroys the original silver maple here in Edmonton as far as growth goes.  Perfect looking trunks and very fast upright growth, a perfectly hardy Edmonton tree.  The sugar maple the same thing.  If you walk around older Sherwood Park (Edmonton suburb) you will find loads of 50 foot ones because the people take care of them and water them regularly.  In Edmonton, you see many in very closed off areas that have no room to grow because they were told to plant in a sheltered area.  Once again, a tree that is 100% if watered normally. Those prairie regional trials were bad in my opinion.  Many trees that are grown easily here were given bad ratings and even the elm failed in Calgary where it grows large large large!  I don't like to go by those at all.  They put those trees in the worst possible situations and summed up that the trees wouldn't work ever in those cities they trialled. As far as the trees that do well here and not in Winnipeg, my guess is the lack of extreme weeks of cold temperature that you get out there compared to here.  When it gets cold here, its for a much shorter time and it gets much warmer throughout the winter.  Many more days of above zero during the winter here that takes the stress off of the trees for a little while.  So even though there are winters that Edmonton may bottom out at the same or even lower temps than Winnipeg, its always for a very short period and then seems to get back upto zero or higher.  Calgary is notorious for -35c and then +15 which much be a burden on trees because they don't know what to do. Loading...
Jim Kohut	April 05, 2008 Reply with quote #22 Nate, you speak as though you know Winnipeg's weather intimately. Have you lived out this way before? If not, I'd be cautious about making inferences about weather conditions based on prevailing mythology. This city tends to get unfairly painted when it comes to weather, most of it rather undeserved and rather unfactual. But it certainly has its pros and cons when it comes to plants, and particulary trees that will grow here. Like Edmonton and other large prairie centers, there is a significant urban heat island effect that keeps the city's core much warmer than the surroudings. Like Edmonton, the airport where the weather readings have been taken the last 100+ years is outside of the city (on the outer NW side, which not coincidentally, are the prevailing winter winds here). Often, the airport will give a -35 reading where downtown (the Forks) is reading -28 at the same time. I think the same logic you apply to moisture in Edmonton (that the urban environment provides supplemental moisture) applies to temperature and hardiness in Winnipeg - the urban heat island effect and massive greenspace we have here (acting as a huge shelterbelt) make the city 1-2 zones warmer than the surroundings. I still stand by the contention that pretty much the same trees will grow in the urban environments of Winnipeg, Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon and Regina, with few exceptions and surprises. The only place that does seem to be a real exception on the Prairies is Lethbridge, where true zone 4 plants can be grown successfully. Jim K. Loading...
akeimou	Jan 08, 2010 Reply with quote #23 since the blizzard of early december we've had regular snow dumps and this is a rare sight in calgary that pathwalks are lined with 1- to 2-footer walls of packed snow for over a month i.e., very good snow cover this year.  but wait, it's 1C right now and chinook is blowing into town.  we shall see.  really curious if we'll ever see bare ground in plant beds this year.  --meg Loading...

Previous Thread | Next Thread Page 2 of 2    < 1  |  2

Reply

Bookmarks

Digg  del.icio.us  StumbleUpon  Google